(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[3600]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[Redmond Cup Senior Division Round 2]PW[Calvin Sun]PB[Gansheng Shi]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2011-08-02]EV[Redmond Cup]RO[Round 2]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Ashish Varma]C[zertyu: yeah
Lynx [2k?\]: woo!
zertyu: first
Zenshu [10k\]: 3rd :p
peopleth [3d\]: what happen
np100 [9k\]: is there stream for this?
USGO1 [-\]: Hi I'm Ash your game recorder for today
np100 [9k\]: do u want to catch them all?
Pizza01: hello usgo
goeoeyun [?\]: ...
goeoeyun [?\]: hi USGO
kurome [14k\]: there are no game recorders are ther?
waretsuyla [3k\]: hi Ash
Pizza01: Hi Ash
Lynx [2k?\]: thanks for recording!
Wiggum [5k\]: Ash Playem
Pizza01: Ash Cation?
Pizza01: from pokemon?
cugel [1k\]: Ganesh, this time u can't lose !!
cugel [1k\]: so don't play greedy move !!
Pizza01: he will win
Pizza01: he is pro..
]RE[W+10.50]
;B[pd]C[trousey [16k\]: not yet he isnt maney insei
]
;W[dp]C[trousey [16k\]: maybe insei
]
;B[pq]C[zertyu: hoshi
bloodninja [?\]: gotta catch 'em all
]
;W[dc]
;B[fq]C[Pizza01: go!
]
;W[cn]
;B[jp]C[jsc [7k\]: lol
Cephei [3k\]: does calvin sun play in kgs?
Pizza01: looks like q6
Pizza01: i mean r6
USGO1 [-\]: Yes, He's kbag on KGS
Pizza01: R6 is the normal opening again?
]
;W[qn]C[Nemia [5k\]: so? svetlana (3p) lost to Tormanen (6d)  in EGC so being a pro doesn't mean you're better
Cephei [3k\]: thanks
]
;B[po]C[peopleth [3d\]: q6
Pizza01: s4
Pizza01: my friend
peopleth [3d\]: q6 not r6
Wiggum [5k\]: s4 is normal
]
;W[rp]
;B[ql]
;W[pn]C[cugel [1k\]: very classic
Pizza01: why this opening is played alot on that tournament?
peopleth [3d\]: b is good
]
;B[qq]C[cugel [1k\]: but this is the type of game w is good at
zertyu: nice
cugel [1k\]: i never had success with kobayashi style as b
cugel [1k\]: the moyo is too small for me
]
;W[pl]C[peopleth [3d\]: cobayasi is not goog
peopleth [3d\]: d
]
;B[qj]C[cugel [1k\]: and u let w destroy the pincer which is not good for hoshi stone
]
;W[no]C[cugel [1k\]: look at this
Pimpernel [7k\]: kobayashi even tried k3 instead of k4 but gave it up
cugel [1k\]: oh
cugel [1k\]: really ?
Pimpernel [7k\]: yeah
USGO1 [-\]: There's a group of youths watching this game intently
cugel [1k\]: pro should know better =p
USGO1 [-\]: Myself included xD
peopleth [3d\]: j3 is best
zchen [8d\]: you guys should have opened this game in the english game room
ShenTe [4k\]: is there a video translation?
bloodninja [?\]: zchen did you win today?
zchen [8d\]: here not many people will watch
cugel [1k\]: why ?
zchen [8d\]: its not on top of the list
USGO1 [-\]: Active games tab?
cugel [1k\]: some one tell admin...
Pimpernel [7k\]: its op top of the active games list
Cephei [3k\]: its already the most popular game
]
;B[mq]C[cugel [1k\]: ok
cugel [1k\]: so N3 submit
cugel [1k\]: O5 creative no ? i discover the move
cugel [1k\]: i mean new 4 me ^^
cugel [1k\]: come on guys cugel 1k shouldn't be the only ppl to talk about the moves
guest003 [-\]: aha are you reinventing old patterns now
]
;W[pk]C[cugel [1k\]: yes i do it all the time
jsc [7k\]: hello guest
ShenTe [4k\]: it's half past midnight here. I can't talk.
]
;B[qo]C[cugel [1k\]: originality, is the art of concealing your sources
cugel [1k\]: and the dame attack begins !!
guest003 [-\]: yes this bamboo is often played in other patterns, i suspect white to drop s4 now
xio [6k\]: cugel, you used to be much stronger...
]
;W[qk]C[cugel [1k\]: yes
guest003 [-\]: as fortold
JosephCnrd [13k\]: how strong are these two by kgs rank
Lynx [2k?\]: yes saving s4 too slow
USGO1 [-\]: They're around KGS 8d
ShenTe [4k\]: it was dcugel. heÄ's kcugel
JosephCnrd [13k\]: cool
ShenTe [4k\]: he's kcugel, sry
cugel [1k\]: so like i was saying earlier...
]
;B[ro]C[cugel [1k\]: no good for Q16
]
;W[lo]C[guest003 [-\]: s5  black would immediatly do s7 
Pizza01: calvin is playing very fasxt
ShenTe [4k\]: d=dan, k = kyu. therefore kcugel ;)))
Pizza01: fast
cugel [1k\]: so all b have any serious is bottom side, flat and finished
]
;B[fo]C[Pimpernel [7k\]: is s5 really important for b at this stage?
cugel [1k\]: it's huge
ShenTe [4k\]: it's big
guest003 [-\]: no broadcasting camera?
cugel [1k\]: and b has to justify R5
cugel [1k\]: R10 stone light
ShenTe [4k\]: wel, R5 might have been also to cut at P6
Pizza01: o17
cugel [1k\]: R8 too :)
]
;W[lq]
;B[mr]C[cugel [1k\]: ah, right, b can build at F5, or try to
cugel [1k\]: but seeing O5, M5, it feels... mhhh
peopleth [3d\]: w is good now
cugel [1k\]: like moot
Pimpernel [7k\]: this is a nice game for w i think
Pizza01: this is ...
Pizza01: this....... is...........
peopleth [3d\]: w d15
cugel [1k\]: oh my lol i'm rooting for Calvin Sun !! Mingjiu Jiang, master's disciple !
Pimpernel [7k\]: what is the redmond cup anyway?
]
;W[qf]
;B[nd]C[xio [6k\]: I think I prefer b
cugel [1k\]: D15 ? that's ancient play
USGO1 [-\]: Just for reference Calvin has won the Redmond Cup 3 times and Gansheng Shi has won the Redmond Cup 2 times.
Lynx [2k?\]: I prefer W
peopleth [3d\]: r14 bad
guest003 [-\]: question: which side to approach the q16 hoshi...arrgh i type to slow ^^
cugel [1k\]: i don't know
peopleth [3d\]: d17 here
Lynx [2k?\]: w position more positive
cugel [1k\]: R14 means w feels the group is weak
Hikky [3k\]: answer:  from the farther side.
]
;W[rd]C[cugel [1k\]: maybe from P6 hane
peopleth [3d\]: o17
Hikky [3k\]: cugel is right
]
;B[cq]C[Hikky [3k\]: W must feel it is weak to approach from that side
cugel [1k\]: S16 confirms
cugel [1k\]: C3 i like in this pos
cugel [1k\]: cause b has not so much hope for bigger moyo
cugel [1k\]: and M3 there...
peopleth [3d\]: d3
Hikky [3k\]: I feel like maybe an approach in the top left could be bigger than C3, no?
cugel [1k\]: but, top R17 is really, something too
goren2 [5k\]: p13?
cugel [1k\]: answer locally too big
smonds1 [3k\]: m16
guest003 [-\]: white can either split or discard the corner for sente
cugel [1k\]: but if w take sente, ouch !!
smonds1 [3k\]: later for white m16 is big
Pimpernel [7k\]: probably w was suspecting o16 for center influence and want to play m17 soon
guest003 [-\]: i think splitting is good enough, black has many groups already
peopleth [3d\]: or l16
cugel [1k\]: yes
Hikky [3k\]: yeah, splitting feels nice.  makes H3 or H4 a good point
Hikky [3k\]: for W
cugel [1k\]: maybe it's a good case of skipping R17... maybe...
cugel [1k\]: what's dan opinion ?
guest003 [-\]: split
Lynx [2k?\]: r17 very important but b is not too upset extending
cugel [1k\]: D3 E2 for w u mean ?
goren2 [5k\]: p13, l3 or m17
Pizza01: outch
smonds1 [3k\]: r17 isn't big point for the top side black or white
evanj [3d\]: w cannot play d3 d2 e2
]
;W[dq]C[smonds1 [3k\]: area around L16/17 bigger
]
;B[cp]C[cugel [1k\]: R17 is rather a b move at top
guest003 [-\]: o16 can hardly be attacked...so the upperright is finsihed for the time being
cugel [1k\]: feels big but slow for w
evanj [3d\]: but b wants the corner
]
;W[do]
;B[dr]C[cugel [1k\]: yeah E2 type
peopleth [3d\]: w will win
Pimpernel [7k\]: why is e2 not possible?
Remina [4d\]: USA vs Canada
peopleth [3d\]: b many groop
dagec [7d\]: go canada!
Lynx [2k?\]: yes I agree W superior position
evanj [3d\]: it is now
np100 [9k\]: which one is canadian?
Remina [4d\]: Gansheng Shi is from Canada
guest003 [-\]: e2 is perfectly sente...so i wonder why white wastes time
guest003 [-\]: maybe he went to fetch a drink
ennuistic [1d\]: e2 is no good?
Pimpernel [7k\]: is this real time?
cugel [1k\]: is w gonna play a like C11 next ? or too far ?
cugel [1k\]: i feel w in heavy shape here
cugel [1k\]: not good
Pimpernel [7k\]: w has to cut
ranin19 [10k\]: whats the redmond cup
evanj [3d\]: youth tournament
Pimpernel [7k\]: how old?
evanj [3d\]: < 18
peopleth [3d\]: what thinking about? white
]
;W[ck]C[JosephCnrd [13k\]: o
cugel [1k\]: cut is big, but heavy, while b has light shape & skirt at M2 !!
]
;B[er]C[cugel [1k\]: so yeah \\o/
USGO1 [-\]: Gansheng Shi is 17, and Calvin is 14
JosephCnrd [13k\]: how old are these two
JosephCnrd [13k\]: ah
cugel [1k\]: and w chicken extension of C9
peopleth [3d\]: b is good
]
;W[qc]C[cugel [1k\]: and
cugel [1k\]:  ^^
JosephCnrd [13k\]: Calvin going to be strong huh
guest003 [-\]: white could play e2 c2 e3 f2 c9 and then this
cugel [1k\]: i really don't like w style :-)
]
;B[kc]C[peopleth [3d\]: me too
peopleth [3d\]: style
cugel [1k\]: and i hate b opening ! :-)
Pimpernel [7k\]: ha
cugel [1k\]: lol
evanj [3d\]: nah, he'll discover girls, go to college, stop playing go
evanj [3d\]: he'll wind up 3 dan like the rest of us
cugel [1k\]: he plays "patate", comme on dit
]
;W[ce]C[cugel [1k\]: lol
peopleth [3d\]: around l17 is immportant ...in this game
np100 [9k\]: how old are they?
cugel [1k\]: C15
Pizza01: patate patate
Pizza01: !!
]
;B[db]C[cugel [1k\]: aaaaah
JosephCnrd [13k\]: 14 18
cugel [1k\]: the classic
JosephCnrd [13k\]: yr
Pizza01: d18 omg
Pizza01: OMG
cugel [1k\]: what move w ?
Pizza01: OMG D18
cugel [1k\]: yeah
cugel [1k\]: yosu miru
peopleth [3d\]: e17
waretsuyla [3k\]: e17
kurome [14k\]: so many options
cugel [1k\]: no !
Pizza01: e17
goren2 [5k\]: c18
cugel [1k\]: no !
evanj [3d\]: d16
Pizza01: e17 is the only move
cugel [1k\]: no !
peopleth [3d\]: only this move
ranin19 [10k\]: e17
peopleth [3d\]: e17
Pizza01: e17
kurome [14k\]: e 18
cugel [1k\]: maybe
Pizza01: e18 bad
cugel [1k\]: :)
Maek [2d\]: why?
guest003 [-\]: then i wil do e18
cugel [1k\]: it helps b
peopleth [3d\]: c15 is bad
peopleth [3d\]: g16 is good
cugel [1k\]: E18, inconsistent with R17
guest003 [-\]: e18 e17 e16 f17 f18 g17 g18 h17 c17 
Pizza01: i will not read that sequence guest
Pizza01: spent of time
evanj [3d\]: crosscut and extend along second line
guest003 [-\]: nice points
Pizza01: waste of time 
Pizza01: e17
JosephCnrd [13k\]: who is w
kurome [14k\]: c17
cugel [1k\]: agree, disable control click
guest003 [-\]: read
Pizza01: no
Pizza01: u sequence is wrong
guest003 [-\]: oh phone..can't see?
cugel [1k\]: E16 ???
evanj [3d\]: d16
guest003 [-\]: calvin is white gansheng is black
ShenTe [4k\]: Calvon Sun, 7d. it's written above, Joseph
RobertT [-\]: pizza guests sequence is a standard joseki...
Pizza01: no
Pizza01: is a mistake
Pizza01: cya
cugel [1k\]: joseki
JosephCnrd [13k\]: can't see on phone yeah
Pizza01: nah mistake
Pizza01: cya
cugel [1k\]: joseki is the universal excuse
JosephCnrd [13k\]: to long a title
cugel [1k\]: how about the context ?
guest003 [-\]: crazy aga ranks ^^
ranin19 [10k\]: e17 does look good
cugel [1k\]: like L17 group
RobertT [-\]: and is good in this context
]
;W[ec]C[ShenTe [4k\]: C18
ranin19 [10k\]: would w really oush white on second line
ShenTe [4k\]: oO
cugel [1k\]: :)
waretsuyla [3k\]: héhé
RobertT [-\]: e17 game losing move
cugel [1k\]: why
]
;B[dm]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: white looks pretty good imo
cugel [1k\]: w reveals he wants to attack, then b will defend ?
guest003 [-\]: yes black immediatly starts reducing the moyo white attempts to build
ranin19 [10k\]: e6?
cugel [1k\]: ok
ShenTe [4k\]: w should strenghten M3 soon
]
;W[cm]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: m3 is light
peopleth [3d\]: e6
]
;B[on]C[guest003 [-\]: white intends to play h5
peopleth [3d\]: hazama
cugel [1k\]: so the idea of E18, and D16 (sic), is to fix shape instead of giving away too much strategy ?
davideo [3k\]: where can i see the replay of mingming lin vs daniel's game from today?
]
;W[oo]
;B[om]C[peopleth [3d\]: bad .thismove<b
cugel [1k\]: good cut
peopleth [3d\]: good cut
cugel [1k\]: this b always looking for a fight
davideo [3k\]: anyone know mingming's exact screen name?
Jinni [1k\]: gooder cut
Celerity [3d\]: no cut
cugel [1k\]: and ready to ask lots :)
dagec [7d\]: care to say something? USGO?
gyuy: is a mistake
Celerity [3d\]: o8
gyuy: cya
peopleth [3d\]: recovery. w
davideo [3k\]: in regards to my question?
gyuy: its a mistake
gyuy: cya
cugel [1k\]: the K4 and F5 stones are beginning to look good
]
;W[rl]C[Jinni [1k\]: best cut in any game ever
Tsuijin [2d\]: white can still attack top though
guest003 [-\]: lol
Celerity [3d\]: w wants to fight
Tsuijin [2d\]: so the fight isn't uneven
guest003 [-\]: i have cutted groups and both side died ^^
]
;B[mn]C[Theo93 [5k\]: lo
peopleth [3d\]: n5 or o3
cugel [1k\]: like black get R13 move or something ?
guest003 [-\]: but black has a proper cut here white tried patching the problem earlier with r14 already
cugel [1k\]: or Q13 ?
]
;W[mo]C[cugel [1k\]: N2 consistent with cut
dagec [7d\]: USGO 1, who are you?
]
;B[lm]C[Jinni [1k\]: his names ash
peopleth [3d\]: r14 was bad move
cugel [1k\]: this was b aim all along
USGO1 [-\]: Ash
ShenTe [4k\]: k5
guest003 [-\]: Asish Varma hello there
cugel [1k\]: K5
]
;W[jo]C[guest003 [-\]: dagec wanted a taste of the atmosphere, could you describe a bit
cugel [1k\]: good
]
;B[jm]C[cugel [1k\]: i have 2 black chicknes in my playground
guest003 [-\]: i dislike m7 rather l6 and sacrifce the cuttingstones
ShenTe [4k\]: j4
USGO1 [-\]: It's quiet in here minus the clack of the stones and the beeps of the clocks
peopleth [3d\]: j5
guest003 [-\]: aha that's blacks plan, he wants to force white confined
USGO1 [-\]: Btw Dagec it's being held in the Flying A room
cugel [1k\]: moyo is for attack, cutting stones are precious, u should know =p
USGO1 [-\]: A few youths are watching aswell
ShenTe [4k\]: including USGO
ShenTe [4k\]: :P
USGO1 [-\]: lol
cugel [1k\]: really good for b no ?
]
;W[ip]
;B[kp]C[peopleth [3d\]: if j4, b j5
peopleth [3d\]: no
cugel [1k\]: nice try
guest003 [-\]: yes since e2 stone is there white is introuble making life here, so he is bound to end gote
cugel [1k\]: J5 crosscut is defense manouvre
teach [3d\]: w walked into the trap
cugel [1k\]: but b is attacking
dagec [7d\]: gansheng wants to end the game quickly
Celerity [3d\]: does't feel like s8 was good
cugel [1k\]: :-)
cugel [1k\]: i don't think so
dagec [7d\]: I know him well, he doesnt like endgames
Theo93 [5k\]: lol
ShenTe [4k\]: l5, no other choice
cugel [1k\]: yeah but he'll play middlgame just for the fun of destroying w moyo
dagec [7d\]: he is planning on h6 i think
teach [3d\]: w p5 just asking for trouble
ShenTe [4k\]: or give up stones
mw2a [1k\]: hi, friends
]
;W[jq]C[cugel [1k\]: H6 w good luck
cugel [1k\]: or Q13 ;-)
cugel [1k\]: or worse ? splitting attack ?
Sipes [5k\]: What happened in the first game?
Sipes [5k\]: did B resign?
mw2a [1k\]: this looks difficult for the w player. let us bow our heads and pray for his safety
cugel [1k\]: Bansheng got greedy
cugel [1k\]: in previous game
USGO1 [-\]: Sipes Calvin won the first game
Sipes [5k\]: oh sorry I meant in the Mingming game
cugel [1k\]: u should check commentary by MingJiu Jiang, master
dagec [7d\]: who are you, USGO?
JosephCnrd [13k\]: white n7 
cugel [1k\]: Ming Ming won
USGO1 [-\]: Mingming won against Daniel
Sipes [5k\]: oh sweet lol
cugel [1k\]: and no J5 !!
ShenTe [4k\]: K3 a very nice move
Sipes [5k\]: b+ resign?
aussiemate [8k\]: aww
USGO1 [-\]: Although the game took so long she was late for her lecture :)
ShenTe [4k\]: I would never ever think of it :/
waretsuyla [3k\]: dagec ur a brain fish
]
;B[dl]C[cugel [1k\]: leaning attack then
ShenTe [4k\]: l5
mw2a [1k\]: shente, you aren't concerned about c8?
cugel [1k\]: what yummy shape
Theo93 [5k\]: no
cugel [1k\]: lol
cugel [1k\]: do you sometimes lose groups ?
USGO1 [-\]: For anyone who may be curious Calvin has 28 min left on his clock and Shi has 47.
Theo93 [5k\]: l3?
cugel [1k\]: D7 kake is really severe !!
dagec [7d\]: thx, waretsuyla..
]
;W[gp]C[waretsuyla [3k\]: yw
cugel [1k\]: wow
teach [3d\]: b L4 odd mistake
cugel [1k\]: nice timing kikashi
]
;B[fp]C[cugel [1k\]: L4 not mistake, intent
cugel [1k\]: large scale attack
ShenTe [4k\]: L4 painful
ShenTe [4k\]: w has to play L5 or L3
teach [3d\]: k3 much more natural
ennuistic [1d\]: white still needs to respond to d8
cugel [1k\]: submissive
Wazato [4d?\]: no..
Wiggum [5k\]: c8 captures 3 stones
ShenTe [4k\]: but w can't allow C8 as well :/
cugel [1k\]: he can
cugel [1k\]: he must actually
ennuistic [1d\]: ...
cugel [1k\]: those stones are crap, useless, can see ? no shape, no points
waretsuyla [3k\]: p18 and b can resign
OrenIshii [9k\]: D4 stones are unimportant.
ennuistic [1d\]: c8 is awful for white.
]
;W[ko]C[cugel [1k\]: C8 is not the aim
]
;B[cl]
;W[bl]
;B[bm]C[whatwhat [1k\]: c8 huge
ghunns: resign
cugel [1k\]: yeah but still
ennuistic [1d\]: but still what?
tuerda [1d\]: very strong attack from b
Wiggum [5k\]: b9 is best...
cugel [1k\]: L5 not fully alive 
goren2 [5k\]: e6?
cugel [1k\]: this means b does it in sente
cugel [1k\]: sente thickness
ShenTe [4k\]: e6 f7 
Theo93 [5k\]: b10
cugel [1k\]: E6 unreasonable
]
;W[bn]C[ShenTe [4k\]: w can't allow B6
]
;B[bk]
;W[am]
;B[cj]
;W[bp]
;B[bq]
;W[bo]C[ShenTe [4k\]: at least w alive
cugel [1k\]: u like w or b ?
tuerda [1d\]: b3 surprises me
jsc [7k\]: in gote
tuerda [1d\]: oh no
tuerda [1d\]: I take it back
cugel [1k\]: how about E17 now ? how does it look ?
mw2a [1k\]: no takebacks
goren2 [5k\]: k10
ShenTe [4k\]: if C5 instead of B3, then C3 captured
cugel [1k\]: D9 and bye ;-)
tuerda [1d\]: d9 a very simple move. looks like it might be the best
ShenTe [4k\]: very painful for w, that weak K5-group :/
ShenTe [4k\]: that's the price one pays for weak groups
ShenTe [4k\]: living small, giving up influence, giving up the side.
cugel [1k\]: ok now fix K7 float
whatwhat [1k\]: h6 seals white in...
ghunns: h17 is the move
cugel [1k\]: weak troll
mw2a [1k\]: h6 the sentitude?
koticgood [4k\]: i don't think h6 seals white
ghunns: h6 bad
cugel [1k\]: H6 soft
koticgood [4k\]: k7 too weak for that
tuerda [1d\]: I would be torn between H6 and D9
goren2 [5k\]: maybe 09
Theo93 [5k\]: q10?
]
;B[ir]
;W[iq]C[cugel [1k\]: yes
cugel [1k\]: induce
cugel [1k\]: magnificent for b
]
;B[hr]
;W[im]C[cugel [1k\]: he used the true moyo of Kobayashi !!
ShenTe [4k\]: Q10 generates a weak group for b. no need for that. since then P7 would die maybe
mw2a [1k\]: b wants to murderdeathkill
cugel [1k\]: now, b thickness is making sense
tuerda [1d\]: q10 a very heavy move, way off target
]
;B[jl]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, Q10 damages both M7 AND O16.
tuerda [1d\]: if b wants to play somewhere near the right side then maybe P11
ghunns: weak troll
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Something of a running fight in that area would be extremely bad for black.
cugel [1k\]: shape would be S10 with Q13 / R13 support
CupidStunt [-\]: yo gansheng
cugel [1k\]: and a strong K8 
]
;W[ml]
;B[mm]C[CupidStunt [-\]: remember the bet
cugel [1k\]: good pun
CupidStunt [-\]: don't make us lose 5 dollars
mw2a [1k\]: what an amazing name thhat hasn't been banned
cugel [1k\]: u got your kikashi ! Joseph !
ghunns: weak troll
cugel [1k\]: N8 :)
koticgood [4k\]: why banned? just a cupid that loves stunts
]
;W[gq]C[mw2a [1k\]: yeah...
koticgood [4k\]: ;-)
cugel [1k\]: bamboo
CupidStunt [-\]: a weak troll
]
;B[in]C[cugel [1k\]: à la Captaine
CupidStunt [-\]: i don't think so
itsatrap: bab
]
;W[gr]C[itsatrap:  
itsatrap: weam tr
cugel [1k\]: wow
cugel [1k\]: J6 is pro move
itsatrap: weak troll
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Wowsers.
RobertT [-\]: the only thing better then 1 ladder is 2 ladders
CupidStunt [-\]: gansheng
CupidStunt [-\]: gansheng
CupidStunt [-\]: gansheng
BobWhoosta [1k\]: H7, and no ladder.
CupidStunt [-\]: woo woo woo
mw2a [1k\]: don't cross the ladders
tuerda [1d\]: naw, b will not ladder because w can double ladder break
cugel [1k\]: u think M1 ?
cugel [1k\]: not gonna backfire ?
mw2a [1k\]: stop spamming, you cupidstunt
Koffein [-\]: be aware of the doubleladderbreakertesuji
itsatrap: very weak
ShenTe [4k\]: l2
whatwhat [1k\]: does L2 work for B?
itsatrap: no
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I've never been double ladder broken.  That would be painful.
cugel [1k\]: L2 crude
Koffein [-\]: bob, do you want to see one?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I've ignored ladder breakers often enough, which is why I don't like ladders in my game.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Sure.
tuerda [1d\]: b hard to continue to attack, maybe will just G6
Koffein [-\]: demo
cugel [1k\]: maybe racoon
whatwhat [1k\]: you see another way to keep w without 2 eyes?
itsatrap: weak troll
playgonow: L2
tuerda [1d\]: L2 worse than M1 in almost every way
]
;B[kr]C[tuerda [1d\]: pfff
ShenTe [4k\]: ^^
Yoplaa [3k\]: loool
tuerda [1d\]: shows what I know
ShenTe [4k\]: weak trolls
claytor [6k\]: heh
Remina [4d\]: lol silly tuerda
USGO1 [-\]: lol
OrenIshii [9k\]: :-D
odnihs [-\]: hi there ^^
mw2a [1k\]: can we ban everyone, please
USGO1 [-\]: Hi justin :P
ShenTe [4k\]: Justin Case
mw2a [1k\]: justin credible
ShenTe [4k\]: ^^
tuerda [1d\]: justin time
]
;W[jr]C[claytor [6k\]: justin eugh
mw2a [1k\]: ...
]
;B[kq]
;W[hn]C[mw2a [1k\]: is eugh dutch?
claytor [6k\]: no
claytor [6k\]: just enough
]
;B[hm]
;W[io]C[PeiPei15 [?\]: great fantasy!
PeiPei15 [?\]: ^^
mw2a [1k\]: yes, yes. i think the dutch pronounciation would be the closest to what you wanted
mw2a [1k\]: althought, i really have no clue
OrenIshii [9k\]: taking looks so tempting
tuerda [1d\]: one way or the other this is good for black
guest003 [-\]: ben je hollander is correct mw2a
mw2a [1k\]: hmm?
guest003 [-\]: your words rather sounded german
mw2a [1k\]: you can hear me?!
angl [4k\]: of course
Theo93 [5k\]: g6?
mw2a [1k\]: o,o
guest003 [-\]: nope but you wrote euch
ennuistic [1d\]: what is white planning here?
PeiPei15 [?\]: no
playgonow: rather g17 :)
mw2a [1k\]: no, i wrote eugh which is what claytor wrote
tuerda [1d\]: whyte basically just trying to avoid death
mw2a [1k\]: xd-
guest003 [-\]: missed that
whatwhat [1k\]: g5 kill?
ennuistic [1d\]: he's not doing a very good job.
Theo93 [5k\]: ^
guest003 [-\]: g6 k6 h8 is possble
playgonow: look at the whole board not only one situation
Theo93 [5k\]: yep i think that's how it should be played :)
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Thank you Koffein.
cugel [1k\]: wow
cugel [1k\]: he did it
]
;B[gn]
;W[jn]C[Theo93 [5k\]: :)
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White lives in gote...
USGO1 [-\]: Gansheng Shi spent a while thinking about that move..
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Black is totally loving his position atm.
cugel [1k\]: this is great
ennuistic [1d\]: h8 here then?
cugel [1k\]: even better than i thought
atlbrandon [3k\]: ko
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, that's what I would think ennuistic.
guest003 [-\]: sure black wants sente to hit d9
cugel [1k\]: :)
cugel [1k\]: D9 is old fashioned i was told
atlbrandon [3k\]: no ko
guest003 [-\]: possibly c13 and ommit d9
cugel [1k\]: let him live
Koffein [-\]: old fashioned? not in this situation
cugel [1k\]: no more risk
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I would think here c13 because black is so strong locally.
cugel [1k\]: i know just tease
lance123 [-\]: G17?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Unless you consider the ladder to be too much aji against the thickness...
Theo93 [5k\]: why let him live? kill him. lol
mw2a [1k\]: to not j8 would be to err
BobWhoosta [1k\]: H8 better shape imo.
CupidStunt [-\]: kill
]
;B[il]C[CupidStunt [-\]: kill
guest003 [-\]: pathetic life is more painful then dying
CupidStunt [-\]: kill
cugel [1k\]: make firm shape
]
;W[go]C[atlbrandon [3k\]:  it`s a ko i think
cugel [1k\]: enclose
]
;B[in]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: My opinion is negated...
CupidStunt [-\]: gansheng you totally got this
BobWhoosta [1k\]: ying about 50 points more painful.
cugel [1k\]: ;-)
BobWhoosta [1k\]: But sente, always remember dying is sente.
cugel [1k\]: w is shooting pants !!
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Could be vital.
ProoMas [1k\]: not always
ProoMas [1k\]: =D
]
;W[nq]
;B[nr]C[lance123 [-\]: the white group seem ded
ProoMas [1k\]: sometimes you die in gote
]
;W[im]C[ProoMas [1k\]: xD
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Not if you're careful...
cugel [1k\]: easy life
ProoMas [1k\]: k1?
atlbrandon [3k\]: if w dies...
tuerda [1d\]: b perfectly happy to just G7 though no?
ProoMas [1k\]: oh nvm
cugel [1k\]: yeah
ProoMas [1k\]: the cuts
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, I would G7 and make white play K1.
]
;B[ak]C[OrenIshii [9k\]: w has too many ko threats
cugel [1k\]: but maybe he try to kill
tuerda [1d\]: b will g7, make w live, and then just declare myself the winner
Theo93 [5k\]: guess not :o
tuerda [1d\]: himself
BobWhoosta [1k\]: If white gets G7 it's a heavy ko for black.
tuerda [1d\]: sry
cugel [1k\]: i think his character will push him to the kill
]
;W[al]
;B[in]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: White will run out the ladder for threats.
]
;W[oq]C[cugel [1k\]: D9 got bigger
CupidStunt [-\]: bill shi you got this
BobWhoosta [1k\]: That's 7d ko threat power!!
tildebis [-\]: W has too ùany local threat
tildebis [-\]: many*
CupidStunt [-\]: BILL
]
;B[or]
;W[im]C[cugel [1k\]: not many but some
cugel [1k\]: b has not many ko threats
playgonow: a6
guest003 [-\]: white holds f2 and l1 to be threats too, black will not be able to kill
Yoplaa [3k\]: M2 two threat ?
tildebis [-\]: yes B can't win this ko
cugel [1k\]: A6 damage
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Here black will connect.
adwue [3k\]: and n4 ...
cugel [1k\]: maybe get mad and K1
BobWhoosta [1k\]: The influence black gets here is undeniable, black is leading by quite a bit.
guest003 [-\]: kids...they dream about killing..so much violence^^
atlbrandon [3k\]: a4
atlbrandon [3k\]: ?
RobertT [-\]: a4 bad ko threat
cugel [1k\]: connect
tildebis [-\]: a4 might be painful for yose
tildebis [-\]: since B can't win the ko
cugel [1k\]: yes A6 similar
cugel [1k\]: no good
cugel [1k\]: connect !!!
]
;B[ap]C[tildebis [-\]: wow
tildebis [-\]: my bad :'(
tildebis [-\]: :)
waretsuyla [3k\]: lol
guest003 [-\]: g7?
RobertT [-\]: a4 is admiting defeat
]
;W[gm]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Oh, this eliminates F2 as a ko threat?
]
;B[ao]C[tildebis [-\]: *me returns read some bo books
cugel [1k\]: what a lol
guest003 [-\]: another bingo for me
ProoMas [1k\]: wtf
mw2a [1k\]: b mistaje maybe
cugel [1k\]: b... total crak down
BobWhoosta [1k\]: This is bad for black imo.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White gets a ponnuki where black had thickness.
cugel [1k\]: i can't stand the sight.... double atari, man
]
;W[fn]C[Imp20 [3k\]: now the n7 stones stranded?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Cuts off K8 group in sente.
]
;B[en]C[cugel [1k\]: very very bad for b
BobWhoosta [1k\]: And there's still the ladder.
cugel [1k\]: center stones go poof
cugel [1k\]: top under pressure
RobertT [-\]: good for black
ProoMas [1k\]: playable
ProoMas [1k\]: I don't like b so much tho
angl [4k\]: whose and which
cugel [1k\]: i don't like :(
OrenIshii [9k\]: why is this good for black?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: playable yes, but not as good as thickness imo.
guest003 [-\]: b6 groups dies...however white can play m16 and m17 both now
Koffein [-\]: i don´t like this for black .. black had an easy game if he just connects - but now blacks center is weak, so white has a chance to fight
tildebis [-\]: I like B but I was sure W would not sacrificed B5...
BobWhoosta [1k\]: The pro Orenlshii, is that black gets a ton of points.
cugel [1k\]: i think b missed big chance
]
;W[mj]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: The con is that K8 now needs to find life, so white will get some points of his own by chasing it.
]
;B[ji]C[radishimo [2k\]: h8 is a strong move that can easily follow up with a ladder breaker for c9
BobWhoosta [1k\]: AND there is still the horrible ladder aji.
OrenIshii [9k\]: I see that, but he loses a lot of influence and his center group is very weak
guest003 [-\]: m16
cugel [1k\]: lol
guest003 [-\]: m16 l16 l15 
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yes Oren, you are correct.
lance123 [-\]: Az
lance123 [-\]: A1
BobWhoosta [1k\]: A1 gote.
tildebis [-\]: I don't think B very weak in the center but... maybe I should change my mind
cugel [1k\]: b had sente thickness with 1 simple move, and he let everything fall on the floor for a gote kill with bad aji. neat
OrenIshii [9k\]: But then I'm weak, b surely knows, what he's doing.
guest003 [-\]: iliked your Az better
]
;W[nf]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Now take the ladder.
]
;B[pc]C[cugel [1k\]: incredible
Yoplaa [3k\]: b like cash
Imp20 [3k\]: wow right side getting bigger and bigger
]
;W[ll]C[guest003 [-\]: is this 7d? then i would be judan
Yoplaa [3k\]: troooll
Koffein [-\]: do you never sleep, ron?
]
;B[qe]C[cugel [1k\]: b heavy shape
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, those stones are worthless.
guest003 [-\]: yes i do regularly twice a day
BobWhoosta [1k\]: M8 was slow.
cugel [1k\]: S14 guy ?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White should be kicking himself now.
]
;W[rf]
;B[re]
;W[se]
;B[qd]C[JosephCnrd [13k\]: how 
ProoMas [1k\]: it's not as bad as u guys r trying to show ;P
soccer1111: black won; gansheng won; tom and curtis get five bucks
radishimo [2k\]: what do you take to keep you regular guest003?
cugel [1k\]: it's trying to make big chicken
BobWhoosta [1k\]: ProoMas, it's not that it was bad, it's that it's not as good as I believe black could've gotte.
]
;W[rb]
;B[qb]
;W[rc]C[guest003 [-\]: i take fresh water
]
;B[eb]C[cugel [1k\]: b fixed top somehow
]
;W[cb]
;B[fc]C[cugel [1k\]: and now the fun part
]
;W[jc]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: The ladder will come into play here.
guest003 [-\]: yes calvin will crash him now
BobWhoosta [1k\]: This double move is going to tear the top into shreds.
redte [8k\]: p13 for b?
Crude [1d\]: there's no way w is coming back
BobWhoosta [1k\]: redte, top and left side most urgent.
cugel [1k\]: 55 solid b
]
;B[ei]C[cugel [1k\]: good
cugel [1k\]: E11 is new style
guest003 [-\]: oh yes if b6 comes alive again black hardly has points at all
guest003 [-\]: e11...still doesn't like to play honte
cugel [1k\]: :-)
cugel [1k\]: i would have D9 here
cugel [1k\]: no problemo
Theo93 [5k\]: why e11 and not k16?
ProoMas [1k\]: e11 = I really need more points to win this game, so I can't afford honte
ProoMas [1k\]: :P
Crude [1d\]: d9 is less efficient obviously
BobWhoosta [1k\]: K16 is answerable by another ladder threat.
tildebis [-\]: K16 will strengthen W on top 
DrWily [5k?\]: too hard to struggle fighting on the top if you have to keep worrying about the ladder
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Mainly, J16.
cugel [1k\]: ko threat and aji efficiency exist too, u know
BobWhoosta [1k\]: At some point white will get a ladder threat that black can't answer over the top, then it will be a massive trae.
guest003 [-\]: so white has c11 stil to make a burden
]
;W[kb]
;B[lc]C[cugel [1k\]: so no, not obvious
Tsuijin [2d\]: opposing weak groups
Tsuijin [2d\]: =)
]
;W[lb]C[Crude [1d\]: it's obvious. if you want to play slow it's your choice
]
;B[jd]C[guest003 [-\]: g18
]
;W[mc]
;B[md]
;W[id]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: this probably is bad for black?
Tsuijin [2d\]: double hane so strong here
]
;B[jb]
;W[ic]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Eating C9 has given black a stomachache.
]
;B[mb]
;W[ib]C[ShenTe [4k\]: J18... is sente against E18
ProoMas [1k\]: what the fffff
guest003 [-\]: f17 where are you running to?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: F15 here?
cugel [1k\]: i nkow
ProoMas [1k\]: L16 was the only move for w
tuerda [1d\]: b trying to pull out F17
]
;B[cc]
;W[bc]
;B[fe]C[cugel [1k\]: 2nd line overrated these days =p
redte [8k\]: g18?
Tsuijin [2d\]: g18 too small
guest003 [-\]: so black is weak at f15 and weak at k11..how to set up a splitting-attack
]
;W[km]C[cugel [1k\]: see
]
;B[kl]
;W[kn]C[guest003 [-\]: so this is a third weak group
]
;B[mh]
;W[of]
;B[pg]
;W[pf]
;B[nh]C[cugel [1k\]: at least w aji is really good now
cugel [1k\]: ah, a 3rd group
cugel [1k\]: perfect
]
;W[oi]
;B[oh]C[USGO1 [-\]: Oops lol
BobWhoosta [1k\]: N12 will easily connect with K11 or L16.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: So I don't know if it's a "3rd group" or not.
cugel [1k\]: b has the bad aji
BobWhoosta [1k\]: But black is definitely aggressive.
guest003 [-\]: aha n12 was played ...pff i wonder why white didn't play n12 on o12
Crude [1d\]: w is a few moves away from resigning
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, white is strong everywhere, black is weak.
tyh89: Is the game over, or not ? anyone tell me, please.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: But impossible to attack.
googlebear [3k\]: musta been a way for b to incorporate P7 in this 
guest003 [-\]: goog joke asish
tildebis [-\]: so B is not weak
OrenIshii [9k\]: tyh89, just watch it
Tsuijin [2d\]: just wait for white's counterattack
tyh89: IS THE GAME OVER? 
tyh89: IS THE GAME OVER?
redte [8k\]: s11?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: tyh89, I wonder if you might read our comments and infer from them your answer.
guest003 [-\]: quietly please the players might hear us
soccer1111: hey who is commenter
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Now, as to the upcoming fight that is about to happen in this game that is still going on...
Imp20 [3k\]: or just watch as mroe stone are added to the board
soccer1111: who is usgo1
USGO1 [-\]: Me.
soccer1111: who are you
Tsuijin [2d\]: white has enough aji to use imo to devastate black
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Good answer.  ;-P
]
;W[ph]C[soccer1111: curtis again?
lilomar [8k\]: soccer, you can check under options->rules
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Tsujin, I just don't see any way to use that aji effectively.
soccer1111: ok.
lilomar [8k\]: Ashish Varma
tildebis [-\]: B might save N7...
USGO1 [-\]: Shi has 20 min left on the clock while Calvin has 7 min.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I mean, black can discard almost anything on the board really.
Tsuijin [2d\]: well a move around like L14 might be sente against top right b
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Only F15 and N12 are really worth something...
Tsuijin [2d\]: then there is alot of large disconnected areas in b's position
Tsuijin [2d\]: and F15 is still too far from middle
]
;B[og]
;W[qh]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: and the G11 gap
cugel [1k\]: b still lead, but got close
]
;B[la]
;W[ja]C[googlebear [3k\]: oh ouch  
googlebear [3k\]: b coulda Oo10 there 
googlebear [3k\]: O10
]
;B[qg]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Whoa, this might be overplay...
Blazer [26k\]: hm i need to learn how to calculate lead more effectively
]
;W[rg]C[Imp20 [3k\]: looks interesting though because of the q11 cut
]
;B[lk]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: nvm, white keeps answering...
]
;W[mk]
;B[lj]
;W[mi]C[cugel [1k\]: how much time please ?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: After white responds here and M11, there's nothing in this position in terms of attack as far as I can see...
Imp20 [3k\]: wow is b going to make territory in the center
USGO1 [-\]: B has 18 min W has 6 min
guest003 [-\]: black might lead by 7~8 points
cugel [1k\]: oh
]
;B[lh]C[cugel [1k\]: good for b then
Tsuijin [2d\]: the shape is still not great...
cugel [1k\]: yeah i got b up 10
Blazer [26k\]: black would be good if it could take the center and upper left
]
;W[li]
;B[ki]C[googlebear [3k\]: b missed big chance
cugel [1k\]: yes :-)
Blazer [26k\]: where?
cugel [1k\]: G7
]
;W[je]C[guest003 [-\]: but all these weak groups floating around, white might catch something
Blazer [26k\]: o
googlebear [3k\]: shoulda played O10 before P13
BobWhoosta [1k\]: L13.
JosephCnrd [13k\]: can't black kill n8 stones
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Totally necessary here.
cugel [1k\]: w is good fighter he'll find
Tsuijin [2d\]: sente or not against top right b?
]
;B[le]C[cugel [1k\]: u like to get enclosed, with moves like Q18 pending ?
]
;W[gb]C[cugel [1k\]: if no then sente... now w fix life
guest003 [-\]: yes seems that black may no drop these two stones
cugel [1k\]: and try to make b heavy
tuerda [1d\]: d16
BobWhoosta [1k\]: What will white gain from this attack?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I guess another move on the left side?
cugel [1k\]: 2 stones ;-)
]
;B[fb]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: I think black can afford to answer.
cugel [1k\]: lol
cugel [1k\]: 5 stones
]
;W[eh]C[Crude [1d\]: last ditch effort
cugel [1k\]: i think he cannot
guest003 [-\]: shicho tactics again
BobWhoosta [1k\]: If this white fails, it's game over.
googlebear [3k\]: d15
Sipes [5k\]: shicho?
]
;B[gc]C[cugel [1k\]: i'm under heavy japanese influence
cugel [1k\]: please help ;-)
mw2a [1k\]: ladder
guest003 [-\]: yes white holds c11 remeber
USGO1 [-\]: W has hit the 5 min mark
cugel [1k\]: strange i was certain of b answer
Crude [1d\]: what is the byo-yomi?
]
;W[di]C[gre: hmm, do they let you drive in you area under such effects?
cugel [1k\]: "add a heavy stone"
USGO1 [-\]: Byomi is 5 perios of 30 sec
USGO1 [-\]: periods*
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White is gaining a lot on the top left.
]
;B[ej]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: short game
Crude [1d\]: ah pretty short
cugel [1k\]: not a fair thing to say maybe, but their style reflects their age
Tsuijin [2d\]: can white  pull out?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: What do you mean?
]
;W[hb]C[freehold [2k\]: wish I had that style at my age :-)
Sipes [5k\]: I think he means thats what she said
]
;B[df]C[cugel [1k\]: i mean not mature
BobWhoosta [1k\]: D16 squeeze is good for black to use, or no good?
cugel [1k\]: and i'm not talkin of skill mind u
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Senior Division?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: These aren't old guys then?
cugel [1k\]: D14 good move
]
;W[bg]C[ProoMas [1k\]: not good, bob
mw2a [1k\]: yes, like 14
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Ah, I see.
ProoMas [1k\]: why waste all the aji around
ProoMas [1k\]: if
]
;B[fh]C[cugel [1k\]: b is still not out the woods
libertygo [1d?\]: I was looking at D16 2
ProoMas [1k\]: if you don't have  a current purpose for it
ProoMas [1k\]: :P
OrenIshii [9k\]: w 14, b 17, said Ash
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White's attack gained him B13 in sente.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: idk if it's enough, but I don't see how he could've gotten more either.
cugel [1k\]: yeah D16 wait
]
;W[dh]
;B[fg]
;W[hl]C[cugel [1k\]: yes, + 5 points w
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Oh, I see ProoMas.
ProoMas [1k\]: :P
Tsuijin [2d\]: really poor shape for b...
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I think I agree, doesn't help black much.
adwue [3k\]: w d9 working?
Crude [1d\]: no
cugel [1k\]: and H8
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Black shape issues with J8 now.
cugel [1k\]: the work is finished ^^
cugel [1k\]: i miss the G6 H7 b stones
]
;B[bi]
;W[bh]C[guest003 [-\]: i still see this as slight win for black
Theo93 [5k\]: ^
cugel [1k\]: yes
cugel [1k\]: still b game
]
;B[ni]
;W[oj]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: You know, looking back at black's decision to take points over thickness, with white so strong on the right side, how was black going to use the thickness anyway?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I agree that becoming weaker near white's moyo helped him to solidify it, but I think I'm seeing more of black's decision.
]
;B[ij]
;W[ik]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Although I would still take the thickness, given my inability to be pro.
cugel [1k\]: w was not that strong yet... but maybe it's good judge
cugel [1k\]: maybe i love thickness too much
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I do too cugel, it's a failing.
USGO1 [-\]: Calvin gets up to refill his cup of water
cugel [1k\]: i could settle for the b kill from ko
libertygo [1d?\]: I like thin fAast moves
BobWhoosta [1k\]: But it IS nice in the middlegame.
cugel [1k\]: :)
tildebis [-\]: K9
]
;B[pb]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: huh
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Shape is too bad to fix?
Sipes [5k\]: ?
jipi1980 [5k\]: p18
cugel [1k\]: very big
Tsuijin [2d\]: is that really worth that much?
cugel [1k\]: yes
BobWhoosta [1k\]: K8 just points.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Q18 shape for both sides.
]
;W[rn]C[Crude [1d\]: actually this is just more points
BobWhoosta [1k\]: S19 has followups now.
]
;B[sn]
;W[sm]C[mw2a [1k\]: how many kgs players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
]
;B[so]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Depends on if they're kibitzers.
Sipes [5k\]: how many
mw2a [1k\]: 21. 1 to screw it in and 20 to kibitz about it
]
;W[lp]
;B[lr]C[USGO1 [-\]: Calvin has 1 min left
cugel [1k\]: lolol
cugel [1k\]: not 2 to screw ?
guest003 [-\]: q18 is 12 points
atlbrandon [3k\]: is there b omi?
]
;W[ra]C[cugel [1k\]: it's teamwork after all
cugel [1k\]: very buig !
USGO1 [-\]: Yes 5 periods of 30 sec
cugel [1k\]: b slight lead i let u recount
]
;B[bb]C[cugel [1k\]: ah  nice
Moma [12k\]: k9 and then l 10 ?
cugel [1k\]: sharp move i had missed
]
;W[cd]
;B[ca]C[cugel [1k\]: very big yose
libertygo [1d?\]: ouch
USGO1 [-\]: W has entered byomi
]
;W[cc]C[cugel [1k\]: very instructive game
whatwhat [1k\]: wow.. big yose there...
angl [4k\]: agreed
cugel [1k\]: yes C17... honte too big
dagec [7d\]: depends on how much black has in the middle
]
;B[js]C[yass [11k?\]: b18 biggest than k1?
]
;W[jk]C[cugel [1k\]: makes 0...
]
;B[kj]
;W[kk]C[temple [-\]: c14?
cugel [1k\]: that part of the board... looks like 20k game
]
;B[if]C[temple [-\]: can b kill there?
]
;W[kd]
;B[ld]C[cugel [1k\]: kill what ??
]
;W[jf]C[temple [-\]: c15
cugel [1k\]: no
]
;B[ig]C[dencarl [3k\]: a17 is white sente for eyes
whatwhat [1k\]: A17 is w sente after all..
guest003 [-\]: amazing that white accepted q18 to be sente
]
;W[gj]C[angl [4k\]: black wins i seethe future
USGO1 [-\]: W has lost 1 byo-mi period
cugel [1k\]: ok he make 8 :)
cugel [1k\]: connect boy
USGO1 [-\]: B has 10 min left on his clock
]
;B[hj]C[temple [-\]: I see a17 but don't know how it makes eyes... b c14 b14 a15?
guest003 [-\]: f9 tesuji
rubicon [1d\]: b has to make at least 15 points in the center to win
mw2a [1k\]: b wins by a couple p
]
;W[fk]
;B[dj]C[cugel [1k\]: good
guest003 [-\]: bingo
cugel [1k\]: and b failed to connect
]
;W[ef]C[adwue [3k\]: f11 pending
]
;B[eg]
;W[dg]C[dencarl [3k\]: c10 has two eyes
cugel [1k\]: A11 funny for w
dagec [7d\]: w gave way some points
]
;B[ee]
;W[gi]
;B[cf]
;W[bf]C[dagec [7d\]: good for b
cugel [1k\]: uuurgh
rubicon [1d\]: why didnt w do c14 in sente?
Tsuijin [2d\]: he wanted to poke into middle obviously !
cugel [1k\]: what sente ?
rubicon [1d\]: oh i see... w now has c13 in sente
mw2a [1k\]: you sure c14 sente?
]
;B[hh]C[angl [4k\]: f7
rubicon [1d\]: maybe it wasnt sente for w
]
;W[he]C[cugel [1k\]: otherwise, one A12, A17 and A15 would make the job
Tsuijin [2d\]: got a prediction on final score dagec?
]
;B[de]C[angl [4k\]: circuitous board
]
;W[ac]
;B[ba]C[rubicon [1d\]: w seems ahead, i think its hard to make points in the center
mw2a [1k\]: b+2 or 3
Theo93 [5k\]: b+2.5
adwue [3k\]: d19
Maayan [2k\]: w+8
]
;W[ah]C[Viperlason [5d\]: Green won this game
]
;B[cg]
;W[ch]
;B[ai]C[guest003 [-\]: cliffhanger game..byoyomi might still kill them..i heard someone say they didn't like yose
]
;W[gf]C[cugel [1k\]: lol
]
;B[ff]
;W[ge]C[cugel [1k\]: w sneak
]
;B[ie]
;W[hd]
;B[fd]C[angl [4k\]: blacks trying to lose
SenteProof [8k\]: F11
Maayan [2k\]: se seems to agree with me :P
adwue [3k\]: m14
]
;W[fr]C[dagec [7d\]: b not enough
Tsuijin [2d\]: thanks man
libertygo [1d?\]: maaaaan
Theo93 [5k\]: se fails. :o
cugel [1k\]: :)
angl [4k\]: f7
dagec [7d\]: i counted b ahead by 2-3
cugel [1k\]: fail judge then
dagec [7d\]: without the komi
cugel [1k\]: ah
dagec [7d\]: maybe even less
rubicon [1d\]: I think W wins by 6.5
cugel [1k\]: b late yose didn't feel great indeed
rubicon [1d\]: maybe something like 4.5, but w win for sure
USGO1 [-\]: B has 5 min left on his clock
tildebis [-\]: W+10
guest003 [-\]: nope don't use SE it's completly off
Lyon [2d\]: SE is never off
dencarl [3k\]: SE is perfect unless there are stones.
Tsuijin [2d\]: we need to steal other server's SE
Tsuijin [2d\]: they have better ones
]
;B[eq]C[guest003 [-\]: how much komi this game?
]
;W[em]
;B[el]
;W[fm]C[dencarl [3k\]: aga is 7.5 ?
OrenIshii [9k\]: SE runs locally
rubicon [1d\]: 7.5
freehold [2k\]: yes, can see it in the game info
freehold [2k\]: 7.5 komi
Goprince [3d\]: yea w wins for sure
guest003 [-\]: in my younger years i only got 5,5, we had to work muchharder
angl [4k\]: l13
Tetriste [1d\]: w stong
mommom [2k\]: ..
]
;B[es]
;W[hq]C[rubicon [1d\]: f8 ?
]
;B[ks]
;W[qa]
;B[pa]
;W[jg]C[mw2a [1k\]: w+7,5
]
;B[oe]C[dencarl [3k\]: ??? L12 
]
;W[jh]
;B[ih]C[angl [4k\]: black will resign
]
;W[kh]C[Tsuijin [2d\]: b ended up making like nothing in themiddle
Tsuijin [2d\]: *middle
angl [4k\]: now
rubicon [1d\]: nobody plays until this late yose stage just to resign..
]
;B[mf]C[cugel [1k\]: dang
]
;W[lg]
;B[mg]
;W[hk]C[nanotech [2k\]: 0 pts in the middle for b = w game
]
;B[gh]C[dencarl [3k\]: death for e18?
cugel [1k\]: ...
cugel [1k\]: my boy
mw2a [1k\]: b made points in the middle
tildebis [-\]: ?
Tetriste [1d\]: c11 
]
;W[pp]C[SenteProof [8k\]: omg
]
;B[qp]C[cugel [1k\]: a 7d like you
mw2a [1k\]: rather, a point
SenteProof [8k\]: h11
Imp20 [3k\]: b need f11?
SenteProof [8k\]: H11 then F11
Imp20 [3k\]: where it the top left second eye?
Maayan [2k\]: a18
rubicon [1d\]: at a18
Imp20 [3k\]: ahh
dencarl [3k\]: ahaha
Tetriste [1d\]: a18 
]
;W[ka]
;B[ma]
;W[op]C[Imp20 [3k\]: so sneaky
cugel [1k\]: blind spot :-)
rubicon [1d\]: if a18 d19 f19 then b is forced to f11 ??
angl [4k\]: or e19
Tetriste [1d\]: yeah
nanotech [2k\]: as long as c11 free it lives
Tetriste [1d\]: this means a18 is one point sente
Tetriste [1d\]: more
]
;B[fi]
;W[ab]C[rubicon [1d\]: apparently they are miai?
Tetriste [1d\]: well it's not sente here
guest003 [-\]: calvin wins i think
Tetriste [1d\]: why not w c11
dagec [7d\]: i told gansheng doesnt like endgames..
angl [4k\]: cool ass game
Tetriste [1d\]: thats 1 point too
cugel [1k\]: yes
Imp20 [3k\]: g19 is 2 points gote then?
cugel [1k\]: he missed G7
guest003 [-\]: ah yes dagec you said that
wskbb: go calvin!!!
Nation [4k\]: hmm
Theo93 [5k\]: w+9.5 now?
]
;B[nj]
;W[nk]C[rubicon [1d\]: m14 ?
]
;B[ga]
;W[ha]
;B[fa]
;W[ne]C[rubicon [1d\]: nvm
Goprince [3d\]: w much better endgame
rubicon [1d\]: yes
rubicon [1d\]: much better
]
;B[pe]
;W[fl]
;B[lf]C[cugel [1k\]: Mingju Jiang's student
]
;W[jj]C[guest003 [-\]: yes that f9 tesuji teached black well to not play e11
]
;B[ii]C[cugel [1k\]: so no choice
Goprince [3d\]: m14 wwas bif
]
;W[kg]C[Goprince [3d\]: big
]
;B[mp]
;W[fj]C[SenteProof [8k\]: white is sooo ahead
SenteProof [8k\]: b should have resign long ago
]
;B[da]
;W[gs]
;B[is]
;W[ek]
;B[dk]C[rubicon [1d\]: he is not that much ahead
Theo93 [5k\]: lol white is only like +8
]
;W[gg]C[ergaD: SEEMS CLOSE TO ME
ergaD: OOPS
ergaD: CAPSLOCK
Tetriste [1d\]: dames
rafire [7k\]: less
Tsuijin [2d\]: time for rapid dame
guest003 [-\]: now still e9 to force black fiannly capturing that nasty stone
]
;B[nc]
;W[hf]C[reticent [5k\]: theo93: the problem is, as ever, the score guesstimator, which claims W +27.5 or something
]
;B[aa]C[rafire [7k\]: just some points I think...
SenteProof [8k\]: that's not what the SE says
]
;W[dd]
;B[ed]
;W[hi]
;B[hg]C[SenteProof [8k\]: the SE don't count the komi?
]
;W[hc]
;B[ng]C[rubicon [1d\]: was o17 necessary?
guest003 [-\]: se is completly off it's aga-rules
nanotech [2k\]: wow a15?
Tetriste [1d\]: w+10
reticent [5k\]: senteproof: SE isn't very good at Go
]
;W[fs]C[OrenIshii [9k\]: SE knows komi, just sucka at area counting
cugel [1k\]: necessary
Theo93 [5k\]: SE is never right
Tetriste [1d\]: 10.5
]
;B[me]C[SenteProof [8k\]: Aga rules?
]
;W[np]C[rubicon [1d\]: oh yeah o17 was necessary
]
;B[ke]C[dencarl [3k\]: o17 atari
]
;W[jd]
;B[kf]
;W[gd]C[SenteProof [8k\]: i dont understand
cugel [1k\]: u can
dencarl [3k\]: after dame filled ...
]
;B[hs]C[ergaD: c6
]
;W[ci]C[rubicon [1d\]: that is not important USGO
cugel [1k\]: it don't matter tells us the result
ergaD: d6
Tetriste [1d\]: result is w+10.5
Tsuijin [2d\]: it matters for beginners
Theo93 [5k\]: ^
rubicon [1d\]: obviously w wins but by how much?
guest003 [-\]: it's ok Varma, thx for the scribing
ergaD: 1.5pt
USGO1 [-\]: Counting
SenteProof [8k\]: white also has more prisoners so
rubicon [1d\]: i stick with my W+6.5
angl [4k\]: drumeoll please
tildebis [-\]: I counted W +10 some times ago
dagec [7d\]: more then that
SenteProof [8k\]: w+ 40
ergaD: w+9000
dagec [7d\]: //
Honjo21ct [1d\]: OVER 9000!
Theo93 [5k\]: w+10.5
Tetriste [1d\]: I didn't count, I can't count area scoring
Viperlason [5d\]: w+r
USGO1 [-\]: W+10.5
tildebis [-\]: hehe
reticent [5k\]: tetriste: you can count either way with AGA and get the same score
tildebis [-\]: :)
tildebis [-\]: thx
Tsuijin [2d\]: nice
USGO1 [-\]: Calvin is our redmond Champ!
tildebis [-\]: congratz
rubicon [1d\]: woohoo
SenteProof [8k\]: W+10,5 - B = R
cugel [1k\]: omedeto !!!
ergaD: Gg
OrenIshii [9k\]: 4th time?
cugel [1k\]: good lesson for this gready b
USGO1 [-\]: Thanks for watching everyone!
angl [4k\]: w or b?
cugel [1k\]: thank you !!
Viperlason [5d\]: did calvin beat the 7p last time?
cugel [1k\]: lol
cugel [1k\]: student lost to master
Tetriste [1d\]: in this case its same score, but area scoring isnt always same as counting territory
angl [4k\]: on a phone.   see no names
cugel [1k\]: but less than komi
angl [4k\]: who won
reticent [5k\]: tetriste: AGA uses pass-stones to make the two methods equivalent (by design)
OrenIshii [9k\]: w+10.5
angl [4k\]: thx
cugel [1k\]: fun game
cugel [1k\]: with shocking moves
tyh89: who win?
kona [-\]: White
tyh89: who won?
tyh89: ok thanks.
atlbrandon [3k\]:  w
SenteProof [8k\]: sorry but these rules are bull
atlbrandon [3k\]: bye
air4: if u count chinese, u dont need pass stones
reticent [5k\]: air4: yep - which is why AGA uses them. a player counting chinese (who doesn't use the pass stones) will get the same score as a player counting japanese (with pass stones)
SenteProof [8k\]: i dont like the fact that americans try to remake the rules that worked already for millenaires
iceweasel [?\]: not just americans; europeans too
air4: yes, but for japanese counting it seems a bit strange
SenteProof [8k\]: jap is the simplest
iceweasel [?\]: that is a joke
SenteProof [8k\]: so here everytime you pass it cost you 1 pt?
Tempus [-\]: The rules get changed every ten years or so?
reticent [5k\]: senteproof: so if both players pass, there's no difference
reticent [5k\]: but it costs you to not fill in dame, yes
Tempus [-\]: As it is, komi is about as consistant as a drunken sailor.
reticent [5k\]: (as it does in Chinese counting)
SenteProof [8k\]: yeah in that sense yeah
air4: w always pass last
air4: maybe with 3 passes
reticent [5k\]: oh, yeah, that
reticent [5k\]: plus territory in seki
SenteProof [8k\]: i should be careful next time i play
reticent [5k\]: those are the differences, yeah?
reticent [5k\]: (neither of which are typically a big deal)
SenteProof [8k\]: never know if i play someone with chinese rules and try to screw me over at the end
SenteProof [8k\]: when i thought it was jap rules
freehold [2k\]: AGA rules allow people trained either Chinese or Japanese to arrive at same score
SenteProof [8k\]: but you have to fill the dames
SenteProof [8k\]: it's a skill jap need to learn then
SenteProof [8k\]: it's a little tactical at the end tho
air4: japanese needs fill in dame, too
SenteProof [8k\]: no way
SenteProof [8k\]: i never see tha
air4: before counting
SenteProof [8k\]: no in KG tho
SenteProof [8k\]: kgs*
air4: u dont need to count anyway on kgs :)
SenteProof [8k\]: so what are the rules used i=on kgs?
reticent [5k\]: you can choose
air4: shortcut japanese
reticent [5k\]: basically, fill in the dame in turn and you never need to worry
SenteProof [8k\]: i never figured that out
reticent [5k\]: the default is japanese
reticent [5k\]: but you can choose chinese or aga too
SenteProof [8k\]: i think i always played japanese and never noticed
reticent [5k\]: (btw, france and britain use aga, they're pretty much the #1 ruleset over the board in the west now)
reticent [5k\]: the thing is it makes almost no difference what ruleset you play
SenteProof [8k\]: yeah u rite dude
SenteProof [8k\]: you can choose
SenteProof [8k\]: there's also NZ
SenteProof [8k\]: weird 
air4: ing rules are fun^^
SenteProof [8k\]: but i'm french i never played AGA rules
reticent [5k\]: senteproof: if you've played a tournament in france, you have
SenteProof [8k\]: no i havent
reticent [5k\]: the french go federation rules are a French translation of the AGA rules
SenteProof [8k\]: but i did in germany
air4: most countys in europe use japanese, id say
SenteProof [8k\]: oh that explains then
air4: countries*
reticent [5k\]: air4: informally, yeah, but the tournaments are run on AGA rules
reticent [5k\]: (as i say - not that this ever really matters)
SenteProof [8k\]: amazing that after over a year i wasnt aware of that
reticent [5k\]: senseis' has more nerdery than you could ever need about this stuff
SenteProof [8k\]: well i played pretty naively till now then i start to worry then
air4: the shapes where the rules make a different are very interesting
SenteProof [8k\]: hey you reckon every player passed 10k should have read Shape Up ?
Brilliant [5k\]: Yes.
Brilliant [5k\]: If they don't, they should be punished appropriately.
shad0wCLAW [21k?\]: is the game still on?
shad0wCLAW [21k?\]: anyone?
ennuistic [1d\]: ?
ennuistic [1d\]: white won.
ennuistic [1d\]: use SE.
])
